Entry

VSV | Achieved through Observation and Experimentation

Without digging deeply into the scientific area of this, the goal of carbon based bacterioplankton systems such as Vodka, Prodibio, Ultralith and Zeovit is to grow bacteria in order to consumer phosphates and nitrates, which are then exported via a protein skimmer. As the bacteria are removed by the skimmer, so are the nutrient that [...]

Without digging deeply into the scientific area of this, the goal of carbon based bacterioplankton systems such as Vodka, Prodibio, Ultralith and Zeovit is to grow bacteria in order to consumer phosphates and nitrates, which are then exported via a protein skimmer. As the bacteria are removed by the skimmer, so are the nutrient that it consumed. This can be achieved with simple carbon dosing such as sugar, or more complex means such as Zeovit, involving reactors, mutiple dosings and color manipulating additives.  (Because the bacteria are exported via skimming, a well functioning skimmer is a must!) The goal of these methods is to create a low nutrient environment, particularly liked by Acroporids.

Here is a photo of Iwan’s reef. He is the one who intrigued us with these methods and this is what can be achieved.

 iwanlasser1.jpg

We have experimented extensively with this, and below is the results of various trial and error. Although there is scientific literature to back up the idea behind carbon dosing and the nutrient export as used by bacterioplankton systems, our “dosing” schedule was achieved through observation and experimentation (far from scientific). If you are considering any one of these systems we urge you to read and research as much as you can.  The Zeovit Forums have a great archive of information, and there are many heated threads on just about every major forum on this topic. In the end, cardon dosing works, but can be dangerous. Like with any changes to your reefs, start slow.

Because every tank is unique it is extremely important to carefully observe your animal’s reactions. For this reason, there are no set guidelines and carbon dosing of any type should only be done by patient and advanced aquarists.

One of the major concerns with simple carbon dosing is developing a “monoculture” of bacteria. The logic of this being, certain bacteria utilize certain carbon sources better than others.  If bacteria strain A utilizes ethanol (vodka) better than bacteria strain B, and you only dose ethanol…all things the same, strain A will out-compete strain B.

Although a true monoculture will likely never occur, because we are an equal bacteria supporter we have created a mixed Carbon Source made up of Vodka, Acetate, and Sugar.  Because of the limited shelf life of this solution, we make small batches every two month. Through dosing individual carbon sources, we have also noticed different effects. The make up of this mixed carbon source is based on those observations.

 carbon sources 

Here you can see the ingredients of our ’system’: Vodka (ethanol), 5% Vinegar (acetate), and Sugar. (The Gin is for your enjoyment) You will also notice the Prodibio Bio Digest]which I will get into later. This is often referred to on the online forums as glassbox-design VSV or VSV for short.

For this batch we used 200ml’s Vodka, 50ml’s vinegar, and 1.5tbsp sugar. Upon initial mixing, the solution will foam from the vinegar, it should turn completely clear in less than 30mins Depending on the reaction of the tank, we change the make-up accordingly. I have found Vinegar can create unwanted white bacteria growth more so than the other two; if we notice this in the next batch we will reduce the amount of vinegar. For sugar we notice more surface film. Again if this occurs we reduce the amount added to the next batch. As we have already achieved low nutrients we currently only dose 0.2ml’s of this VSV solution daily on a 100g total volume system.

A good starting point is 0.1-0.5ml per 20g. This may seem like very little, but it is best to start slow and increase the amount over time to prevent a bacteria bloom. This occurs from overdosing a carbon source which then clouds the water milky white. Unfortunately this can cause systems to crash from oxygen depletion as the bacteria utilize what available oxygen there is, suffocating your fish and corals. (Another reason why a powerful protein skimmer is a must when using these methods).

When dosing carbon, you do not always get the bacteria you want to grow. To help this and create a diverese bacteria population in the water column we dose BioDigest to add diserable strains.

prodibio bac 

Bio Digest is packaged in small glass ampoules with nitrogen gas (cool huh?). In these small vials are both nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria. Specifically the Strains are Nitrosomonas europea, Nitrobacter winogradskyi, Paracoccus denitrificans, and Pseudomonas stuzerii. Prodibio claims they contain 20 Billion bacteria per ampoule.

Due to the life cycle of the bacteria, they recommend dosing every 15 days and as such we follow. We currently are dosing 1 ampoule on our own tank, but when transitioning the livestock to it’s new home we will use a double dose to help keep ammonia, and nitrate down during that high-stress time.

One highly important aspect of these system is mimicking natural seawater parameters. Alkalinity fluctuations in particular can be damaging.  We aim for Alk 7.5 (w Seachem Reef Salt ~6.5 true alk due to borate content) Cal: 420 Mg: 1300.  We also do weekly 10-20% waterchanges to keep proper levels of trace elements and supplement with Amino acids and Potassium iodide. These trace elements are extremely important to coloration of SPS as well as bacterial growth. 

For more info on Aminos’ check out this article: Do they work? 

Carbon dosing is not for everyone, however it works for us. There is risk involved and please do not try this unless you are up to the task and have done your research. We are not responsible for tank crashing, or your acroporas becoming more colorful…all of that is your own doing. 

We hope sharing our experiences helps others and can spark new ideas in this area.

 

 

Related Posts

  1. The VSV Method | FAQ
  2. VSV | Total Organic Carbon in the Reef Aquarium
  3. VSV dosing on Cyano Bacteria over 1.5hrs by Unrulymck
  4. Korallen Zucht | Coral Snow Review
  5. New Aqua Driver ZeoClean Reactor in the works
  • Dave
    Hi guys, I'm assuming that when you mix up your VSV mix, that you store it for a period of time. How long is it safe to store once mixed? Do you keep it refrigerated? I'm just concerned about it going off after a period of time.

    Cheers.
  • John
    Hi. I have been vodka dosing for 14 weeks now with amazing results in my 450 gallon FOWLR tank. I think I may try the "cocktail" here and see how that goes. Do you recommend dosing in the return area of the sump or in the display?. My fish are more colorful than ever and I have crystal clear water and great growth on my live rock. The only drawback I have seen is my fish "flash" every once in a while due to I believe the chemical irritation of the vodka. My nitrates before dosing were over 200. They now are sitting at 10 to 20.
  • @Roberto, It is possible the Purigen will bind some of the organic carbon, but I have used VSV and Purigen with no problems.
  • Roberto Capasciuti
    I start VSV dosaging. I have a doubt... I use or not purigen (seachem)?

    Tank you a lot!!
  • Andy
    Great article. I was thinking of trying this with my tank as I've been battling GHA and some funny looking brown hair algae for a few months now. I was wondering what you would recommend dose wise if your N03 and PO4 test out as zero?

    I know they can't possibly be zero due to the algae growth in my display tank.

    Thanks,
    Andy
  • In the recipe 5% is used. Either can be used, if the dose is adjusted appropriately. I would suggest using the 7% only to lessen the risk of an accidental overdose.
  • Hi,
    What strength of vinegar do use in the VSV ?
    In Norway we have 7% and 35%.
  • Mads
    if you are getting Cyano, that just wont go away, is there something u need to adjust in the mix? less sugar?
  • David
    I have dosed vodka before soley and with the use of prodio and polyp lab bacteria, in the end I developed a huge bacterial bloom which killed my tank. I used Grey Goose and in 2ml dosings. In the end I walked away from this system as my results cost me nearly 700+ in corals and loss of live rock. I don't think this method is really safe or useful for most reefers. Unless you can monitor your tank very closely daily, your going to see a huge bacterial bloom, because what their not telling you guys is that often a MONO strain develops, because you cannot control which strain of bacteria will bloom from the carbon source, and because not all will grow equally ( the law of averages) you will end up with a mono strain. I think perhaps a system like zeo is actually a better and more safe method. I'm not saying you can't achieve great results but to think of this method as "EASY" or an answer to all your sps color problems is unrealistic. I have not used zeo yet, so that too could end poorly, however it seems less guessing then a tried method that works. Also too what nobody is mentioning here is the fact that if your alk is over 7 you will end up with burnt tips on all your sps. I think this method has way too many variables ie: other compounds in granulated sugar, vodka and vinegar your adding to your tank. These items can and will have an effect over time. Also who is to say that once you start this method, your results are actually a result of changing your water more often and paying more close attention to your tank if it does work for you?

    I say I'll stick with a less agressive system with less variables and possibilities of tank failure. I'd rather drink my vodka and spend my money not replacing coral colonies.

    cheers
    D
  • Derek
    Hi,
    I had a couple questions for you. I've been dosing VSV on my 125 reef, currently at4.3 ml/day, and was wondering if it was ok to run products like purigen or chemipure? I havent noticed much of a drop in nutrients and was thinking maybe those products were removing the carbon source.
    Thanks
  • Hi Jim,

    I do not know the shelf life of Prodibio, but given the packaging I would think longer than most. There is no need to worry about over dosing with the BioDigest, you will be fine adding the entire ampoule. FWIW, we have dosed full ampoules on 20g nanos.

    Some have experimented using another Carbon Source besides BioOptim, but I do not feel that is wise. The in frequent doses of BioOptim make it difficult to adjust the VSV.

    Hope that helps.
  • Hi Mads,

    I do not have any experience or knowledge of the ZeoTon product, but based on the description it appears to be a mineral flocculat like Korallen Zucht's Coral Snow. We use that product with good results, and have a full review here:

    http://glassbox-design.com/2008/korallen-zucht-...

    He also highly suggest frequent water changes and activated carbon usage. Be sure the carbon is high quality, you may want to soak in RO/DI water for 24hrs to remove impurities. For more info on Activated Carbon and kneading the carbon please read this article:

    http://glassbox-design.com/2008/vsv-qa-activate...

    Each tank's need or lack there of will be unique. We currently dose every 2 days. At this point I cannot say if one is better than another. We suggest trying them out to see which works best for you.
  • That does help, thanks Eric. Do you happen to know the shelf life of the Prodibio products? There's a nice drop in price when buying the 12 or 30 ampule package for biodigest, for example, but I don't know if it would last 6-15 months?

    Also, you mentioned above not to worry about overdosing the biodigest - would this even hold true for an 80 gallon system? If I did the conversions right, I would only need ~1/3 of the ampule.

    Are you dosing any supplements like the Bioptim? Does that provide any benefit when sticking to a VSV program?
  • Mads
    Hi

    Ben using your aproach on VSV for a few month now, with good results, how ever i dont change water, i just add trace elements along with my balling dosage.

    what are your views on running active carbon filter along with this? and what about anti phos? is the last on nessasary at all? can it ben run as in a "just in case" aproach ?

    how offen do u recomend to add amino acids? and are there a brand you recomend?

    last, i noticed a german shop is selling something called "ZeoTon" http://www.aquafair.de/product_info.php/cPath/4...

    ever heard of this? and how does it sound to run withs along with VSV, from what i can read out of the google translation, it will serve as food for the corals?
  • Hi Jim,

    There should be no problem. If you are concerned, it may be wise to reduce the dosage prior to leaving to 75% of the usual dose and then resume with this 75% dose when returning.

    We skip days every now and then, on accident and occasionally on purpose with no ill effects.

    Hope that helps.
  • Thanks for posting all this information. You've led me to some great (and lengthy) discussions on the forums. Will there be problems if the VSV dosing is missed for a few days? When starting back up again, would it be wisest to restart at a reduced dosage?
    -Jim
  • Hi James,

    In theory yes, they do the same thing. I cannot comment if one works better than the other, but we prefer VSV over Bioptim due to the daily dosing and in my experience our corals respond better. If daily dosing is not your thing, Bioptim is a great alternative that also works well.

    In conjunction with VSV, we also strongly suggest including an amino acid supplement of some type as well as performing weekly water changes to keep up on trace elements.
  • Does the vodka/vinegar/sugar mix work better as a carbon source than the Bioptim?
    Or does it do exactly the same as well as saving a little money?
  • Hi James,

    Thanks for stopping by. We highly suggest using Prodibio BioDigest. In the meantime some people do claim that Seachem Stability works for this type of application, but we have no personal experience with it.

    The .5ml per 20g is per day. Depending on nutrient levels and experience with Carbon Dosing, .1ml per 20g is a good starting point to judge your systems reactions. It all varies from tank to tank, so it's best to take it slow.

    Let us know if you have further questions.
  • I'll have a look around for some Prodibio. In the meantime, is Seachem Stability ok to use? Also, when you say 0.5ml per 20 gallons, is that per day or per week?

    Great site.
  • Hi Hans,

    Yes in my opinion. Some may argue that ozone will not kill the bacteria that carbon dosed system try to grow... But I would not suggest it.

    You will also notice Zeovit, Ultralith, and Pordibio suggest not to use ozone or UV.
  • Hans
    Ozon, is that something u should stay away from with this kinda system?
  • Hi Jens,

    We suggest 0.5ml per 20g, but each tank is different. For example that is the total amount we dose on our 100g system. If you experience any bloom or cloudiness cut the dosage in half and re-evaluate.

    A good level to increase it would be 0.1ml per week. I know these does not seem like much, but it is best to take things slow. Also, you don't always want to be increasing the dosage. Once you find a good maintenance dose that keeps nutrients low, stick with it.

    The reason for adding multiple carbon sources is due to their indiscriminate nature. Not every bacteria will metabolize sugar as well as the other, so by using a mixture you can create even competition amongst the strains.

    From the article:
    "The logic of this being, certain bacteria utilize certain carbon sources better than others. If bac strain A utilizes ethanol (vodka) better than bac strain B, and you only dose ethanol…all things the same, strain A will out-compete strain B."
  • Jens
    Nice article, this may start a whole new trend in the saltwater hobbye. One thing thought, u recomend starting with 5ml per 20g.

    Should that be increased over time, and to what?

    i have before used sugar to raise bateria grown with in the water, and lower no3. So why add more than the sugar?
  • Hi Hans,

    It's very difficult to say... we've changed lighting and additives during the dosing, but I would say it took 2-3 months for nutrients to lower before visible color changes occurred.

    It will vary depending on the existing nutrient levels of each tank.
  • Hans
    yup i meant those.. tnx. just wondering, how fast did u see a change in the color?
  • Hi Hans,

    By No3 filter, do you mean No3 reactor based on sulpher or alcohol? E.g. Korallin?

    I do not suggest using either no3 reactors or UV, but you may need to "wean" your self off of the No3 reactor until the bacteria are established enough to handle the aquarium by themselves.

    They can be counter productive to the bacteria, much like ZeoVit.
  • Hans
    HI again, tnx for your reply.

    One thing has been on my mind, for a few days. Do you recomend, no3 filtres and uv to be turned off when using this metod or?

    with Zeovit, you normaly dont use no3 filter and uv, so what are you views on that?
  • Hi Hans,

    Thanks for stopping by. Yes you are correct, water volume does need to be taken into consideration. Prodibio states that 1 ampoule will treat 1,000L, so dosing 2 would cover your 1600L total volume.

    No need to worry about overdosing the bacteria (BioDigest), but take care in dosing the VSV Carbon source.

    Let us know if you have any other questions.

    Eric Michael
  • Hans
    Tnx for this article, just making sure, before trying myself, are u dosing one ampul every 15 days? Dont u need to dose more, if u have a big aquarium? my own is about 1600L total.
  • thanks much, dude
  • adrian
    very nice, looks like poor mans zoavit. going to give this a try.
  • e&f
    miwoodar,

    Thanks for the comment. I don't feel we can accurately comment on other brands Carbon sources. I have not tried using KZ's or FM's with prodibio, but we are considering to compare the effects to our own DIY mixed C source. If we do, I will be sure to do a write up on it.

    L,

    The new bac from FM concerns me...not in ampoules or in the fridge, im somewhat skeptic. How has it been working for you?
  • miwoodar
    E&F - Great little summary.

    Might you have any comments on the potency of your vodka/sugar/acetate concoction relative to any of the proprietary blends? Do you think it is stronger or weaker?
  • Nice post. I currently use a 'hybrid blend' of Prodibio & Fauna Marin products. I found that when I started to wean off the Prodib, my tank didn't look as "clean". What to think about that, I'm not sure. Either the FM hasn't had enough time to take care of business on its own, or it seems that the combo of the products is more efficient. Like the tank in the picture, I'm not sure exactly what Iwan is running now, but I do do know at one point he was indeed using a combination of products as well. I will try and take the prodibio out of my regimen again in another couple months to see how the FM does on its own. Carbon dosing does indeed work, no doubt. But, as you mention, it's definitely not for everyone. Nor is it the magic solution to a kick ass reef tank.

    My current dosing consists of:

    1st + 15th - 1 amp Prod. Biodigest
    7th + 21st - 1 amp Bioptim
    M-T-W-TH-F - Doses of FM Bak, MinS, AMIN
    M-W-F - 1 drop Bio
    2x / week - 1/2 doses of the aa's soaked into ultralife

    Soon to add the Power-Trace elements
    1. Strontium/Calcium
    2. Iron/Zinc
    3. Iodine/Boron
    4. Magnesium

    Looks kind of like a pain on paper, but it really only takes 5 minutes a day to dose everything.
  • Thts pretty impressive. The colors are amazing. Almost makes me want to start an SPS tank
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